Orchard CMS & Telerik - Not Allowed !!!

Topics: General, Writing modules
Dec 5, 2013 at 5:25 AM
Edited Dec 5, 2013 at 9:42 AM
The official response from Telerik is that the use of Kendo UI with Orchard is simply not allowed.....read on.

I downloaded the trial version of Kendo UI by Telerik this week and got the usual email, thank you for downloading our software, let us know if we can be any help. I then responded, and informed them that I wanted to evaluate the use of Kendo with Orchard for a site I was considering, and asked if they could provide an example of interacting with the data grid and updates from client side code as most examples online are server side, which is obviously not ideal with Orchard. .......

This is the reponse I got from Telerik: -

Our licensing is a grey area, so let me make it clear that using Kendo UI with Orchard violates our licensing agreement; there is no point you wasting your time evaluting our product when it simply isn't allowed under our licensing model. This applies to any version of the library even if you own a full Kendo UI license. For clarification, this licensing violation relates to any open source solution that is not under a GPL v3.0 license, not just Orchard.

For those that are looking for a JQuery toolset to work with Orchard, the list officially just got one shorter which is a pity because its a nice feature rich toolset. For those that have already implemented a solution using these controls, it looks like you need to evaluate your legal position, as you are in breach of your license.

If you wish to follow this up or clarify for yourself, this response was provided to me via Cameron Marsland (cmarsland@telerik.com) at Telerik APAC (Sydney, Australia)
Developer
Dec 5, 2013 at 12:23 PM
Wait a minute. Although I'm far from being a licensing expert (OK, who am I kidding, I filled out the new BSD template at least 50 times here on Codplex) I think this only applies if you'd like to make Kendo UI part of the official Orchard source. However there is no reason for you not being able to use the library for your own (closed source) project, what BTW is based on Orchard as long as you own an appropriate license.
Developer
Dec 5, 2013 at 2:49 PM
Edited Dec 5, 2013 at 2:50 PM
I totally agree with Zoltan. There is nothing preventing you from using Kendo UI inside your custom, closed-source application. Whether it's Orchard or not - this is actually irrelevant here. Orchard is just one of the tools you use. The only thing is if you'd like to open-source your work, you'd need to license it under GPL v3.0.
Seems like they misunderstood your question.
Dec 6, 2013 at 5:07 AM
Edited Dec 6, 2013 at 5:13 AM
To say I was somewhat "amazed" at the response from Telerik is an understatement...

So to clarify, here is the contents of my email to them and their response, so you can work out for yourself if they misinterpreted my question: -

My email: "I've downloaded Kendo UI as part of the trial, and am evaluting the use of Kendo with Orchard CMS as a possible platform for a web based service I'm considering. Can you point me to some client based code which shows how to work with the data grid, and the DataSource object to read, update and post data methods via MVC actions, but all done on the client side."

Their response: Our licensing is a grey area, so let me make it clear that using Kendo UI with Orchard violates our licensing agreement; there is no point you wasting your time evaluting our product when it simply isn't allowed under our licensing model. This applies to any version of the library even if you own a full Kendo UI license. For clarification, this licensing violation relates to any open source solution that is not under a GPL v3.0 license, not just Orchard.

I'm with you guys....

I've been developing commercial software solutions for 20 years and currently work as a Senior Architect, so I have a reasonably good understanding of licensing requirements. In this instance, my understanding is that if I create a module that I use to configure an Orchard based site for my preferences / service requirements and I have a license for the Kendo UI components, and I include those components as an integral part of that module, and I do not freely distribute that module, and therefore use it only for solutions that I create, then that solution is in fact considered to be "closed source" and would therefore not violate their licensing terms.

Finally...
There is a module in the gallery at the moment which wraps the open source version of the Kendo UI library for use in Orchard. Based on this response from Telerik, it would appear this module DOES breach their license terms, and therefore is should probably not be used.....
Dec 6, 2013 at 2:20 PM
"Our licensing is a grey area" if so then maybe person who sent email is confused as well.
Good advice from Kendo FAQ : "To determine which Kendo UI Web license is appropriate for your project, please consult with your legal counsel."
I would say that even module with GPL Kendo UI is fine as long as it is also GPL.
Dec 6, 2013 at 6:17 PM
Edited Dec 6, 2013 at 6:20 PM
I had problems with Telerik in the past, they were giving at that time some right to use to DNN but refuses it for a product that my company was selling in full compliance with Telerik paid License on th beginning, problem raised when we closed the company and released our product as Open Source Apache v2, they refused any agreement for a subset of their RadAjax components...with and answer similar to the one you get.

Have you searched on their site, it's hidden but exists somewhere, they have a kind of Open Source version of their kendo product, without any implementation for frameworks as ASP.NET/MVC. I think they can't change what they have written at that time when they decided to have an open source version of Kendo (no very well known at the beginning). You get a great part of their tools without support and have to build your own interface. I recently used it to replace TinyEditor for my internal usage, TinyEditor is very buggy and removes any empty <span></span> which are often used in Bootstrap themes. Telerik kendo Editor is the only I have found keeping the source identical when switching from source to UI.

The bad thing with this non Open Source orientation they have affirmed recently is they are buying open source products as Fiddler....
Dec 6, 2013 at 6:27 PM
We use KendoUI extensively at work, the guy who sent you that email sounds like a tard. And if you are looking for some examples, you may find some help on a colleagues website: http://breakoutdeveloper.com/Orchard-Modules/kendo-web-updates-q2-2013
Coordinator
Dec 10, 2013 at 4:02 AM
Edited Dec 10, 2013 at 4:03 AM
This actually sounds very carefully thought out. Let me spell it out for what it really means. Ironically, GPL is very often used by proprietary software companies to prevent commercial usage of the open-source version of their stuff (which is their right). The idea is that GPL very scary to commercial entities because of its "viral" aspect. GPL thus allows some open source usage (basically mindshare from people they would never be able to sell a license to in their wildest dreams), while scaring commercial entities away, and pushing them to acquire a commercial license instead. Very, very common pattern, where the GPL is actually discouraging the use of FOSS. But the FSF sees it as a way to fund the development of FOSS. I don't think the reasoning is very sound on their part, but that's another story.
So no Orchard for Kendo because our BSD is in fact a lot more permissive than GPL: it's GPL that's incompatible with BSD, not the other way around...