Election thread for 1 seat on the steering committee

Topics: Announcements
Coordinator
Jun 27, 2012 at 10:24 PM
Edited Jun 27, 2012 at 10:27 PM

Vote is now open until Wednesday July 4th 11:59AM PDT. Can vote anyone who has published at least one message on the Orchard discussions forum before today (spam doesn't count). Each person has one vote to cast on one of the three candidates. You can vote by simply replying to this thread, or if you prefer to vote secretly, you can send me an e-mail at bertrandleroy at Gmail with your CodePlex user name and your vote, and I'll send you a random token so that you can verify your vote when results are posted here. Once the vote is closed, I will publish the results on this thread and will announce the winner.

The three candidates, in the order in which they submitted their candidacy, are: Sipke Schoorstra (a.k.a. sfmskywalker), Antoine Griffard (a.k.a. agriffard) and Ylan Kunstler (a.k.a. ylan). They are all active members of the community, who are already attending most Steering Committee meetings.

Here is what each had to say:

Sipke:
Well, Sipke didn't write anything, as he was probably too busy replying to forum questions.

Antoine:
My name is Antoine Griffard : http://antoinegriffard.com
I am a .NET developer since 8 years and I am interested on Orchard since about 2 years.
I contributed to 1.4 version on Orchard.Fields and I work on some Projections improvements for 1.5.
I have attended to almost all the weekly steering committees since the beginning.
I have made some modules published on the gallery : http://gallery.orchardproject.net/List/Search?searchTerm=author%3A%20Wygwam
I have updated the French translations of modules (Core and external) for 1.4 on http://orchardproject.net/localize/fr-FR 
I have launched http://orchardproject.fr, the French version of http://orchardproject.net , http://docs.orchardproject.fr to translate the documentation in French and also http://orchardproject.be and http://orchardproject.ch and contacted many other contributors of different countries to help creating that kind of communities in their languages.

Ylan:
Hello to the Global Orchard Community,
I would appreciate your consideration for the open Steering Committee seat.  I became involved with Orchard over a year ago when our company began looking for a new framework on which we would develop our next platform.  Immediately I became enthused by the very nature of its premise - an open source community in its infancy!
As a non-developer, I propose that I would bring a complimentary perspective to the Committee and possibly community as a whole. Simply put, I want us to build (as a community) a competitive best of breed platform from a framework and architectural stand point.  As much as we need to continue to focus on the core framework, just as importantly, we would be remiss not to develop a product that is also elegant, intuitive, and easy to use.  I will strongly encourage us to provide end users (for many of us those are our customers) a front-end interface (UX) that will allow them to embrace and love its flexibility, power and ease of use.
If elected, as a Steering Committee member, I would strive to push the following initiatives/goals:

  • To contribute to the growth of the community as a whole.  As such, assist in the development, organization and launch of the inaugural community global conference (Orchard Harvest 2012).
  • Assist in supporting Orchard local communities around the world.  Our success as a global community is very much tied to the success of our local communities' ability to foster brand champions and increase adoption. 
  • A focus on the product development and strategy of Orchard.  Build a killer product that not only relies on the elegance of the existing framework, but will eventually allow non-developers as well to embrace what this community is striving to build.

Over the past year, I have closely collaborated with several very active members of the community.  Together, we have made many contributions both direct and indirect to the community.  It has been a great pleasure to be a part of this process.
I hope that you will allow me to participate in the near future as a Committee member by supporting me with your votes!
If you want some more information about my varied professional background:  http://www.linkedin.com/in/ylankunstler or have any questions for me please feel free to contact me.

 

Jun 27, 2012 at 10:31 PM

Ylan votes for Ylan

Jun 27, 2012 at 10:33 PM
Edited Jun 28, 2012 at 1:28 AM

Brett votes for Ylan.

Well said, Piotr.  I think that it's critical to have a diverse set of members on the committee, and Ylan's business experience and product management experience is very helpful as a compliment to the team.  We as Engineers don't have the same user experience perspective as those non-engineers.  Ylan has a great natural ability to see things with a unique eye that will benefit the group.

Developer
Jun 27, 2012 at 10:38 PM
Edited Jun 29, 2012 at 1:11 PM

My vote goes to Ylan.

It would be great to have a non-developer on board, especially that Ylan's been involved with Orchard for quite a while so he knows what the platform is capable of. Having a commitee member who can see problems from the end-user perspective (as we're not building Orchard for devs only after all, are we?) would be very useful.

I also very much like the idea of helping with those Orchard-related activities (like marketing, product/brand development, supporting local communities, organizing conferences and so on) that we, as developers, are not very good at.

Kudos to Sipke and Antoine for the huge amount of work and effort they've already put in Orchard development (and hope they won't stop ever;), but I guess at this moment, when the project has grown and has a chance to become one of the major players in it's field, it would be better to pick a person with strong business/PR/marketing background.

@agono: Sorry you understood it this way. I was simply trying to justify my choice. Don't know if you were ever attending the weekly Committee meetings, but actually all those guys have already contributed a lot to the project. Unfortunately, the non-dev work is not as easily spotted as code contributions... 

@agono: No problem - peace bro!;)

Jun 27, 2012 at 10:40 PM
Edited Jun 28, 2012 at 4:08 PM

sfmskywalker

Edit:

@pszmyd, @morrisonbrett: i am somewhat disappointed that you are entering with a "political campaingn" in this thread. I really dont't favor this kind of political promisses "if you elect me, i will do that and that". Just show me what you have DONE so far and i will or will not vote for you. Or even better, do what  you intend to do, and in september i vote for you ;)

@pszmyd: ok. if that was your intention, then i'am sorry - and peace :-)

Jun 27, 2012 at 10:43 PM

Brian votes for Ylan

Jun 27, 2012 at 11:00 PM

vote towards sfmskywalker

Jun 27, 2012 at 11:24 PM

cadumiranda votes for sfmskywalker

Jun 27, 2012 at 11:37 PM

Probably not correct to say 'Sipke didn't write anything' :-)
Not because he's Dutch :-) but i'll vote for Sipke. I think Sipke has a very good understanding of the internals of Orchard and also can contribute a lot to the UI/UX.
It would be nice to have Sipke's plans/goals/intensions for Orchard mentioned above.

my vote goes to sfmskywalker

 

Jun 28, 2012 at 12:08 AM

sfmskywalker because he is an exceptional communicator AND technically proficient.

I guess it goes without saying that all the candidates are worthy and this was not an easy decision. Maybe I will get to vote for one of the others next time:-)

Jun 28, 2012 at 12:14 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 1:14 AM
Edited Jun 28, 2012 at 1:15 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 1:19 AM
Edited Jun 28, 2012 at 1:22 AM

 

Antoine.

or maybe we need 7 seats for committee

Jun 28, 2012 at 1:50 AM

Sipke

Jun 28, 2012 at 5:38 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 6:05 AM

Sipke

Jun 28, 2012 at 6:08 AM

Antoine

Jun 28, 2012 at 6:18 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 6:27 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 6:30 AM

Ylan.

Because he is like pszmyd said a non developer and that's also very important to have in your team.

Jun 28, 2012 at 7:03 AM

sfmskywalker since that is one of the nicknames we remember, and in this case, thats a good thing ;)

Jun 28, 2012 at 7:17 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 7:22 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 8:19 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 8:23 AM

Vote for Ylan

 

Jun 28, 2012 at 8:38 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 10:13 AM

Vote for Ylan

Jun 28, 2012 at 10:53 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 11:04 AM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 11:04 AM

I vote for

sipke (a.k.a. sfmskywalker),

 

Jun 28, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Ylan

Jun 28, 2012 at 1:34 PM

Can we have a half votes? Because I can't really decide which could contribute more - Sipke or Ylan. Sipke has the best Orchard tutorials I have ever seen on the web with great insights on Orchard functioning. But I also think that some PR and marketing around Orchard is something that's probably the most needed thing in this stage - it could lead to a larger community and wider Orchard adoption, maybe even put Orchard in all those posts that compare CMS-es. Most people don't even take Orchard into account just because they haven't even heard about it.

For this reason, if I really had to choose who should I vote for, I guess it would be Ylan, but I would rather give half a vote to both Sipke and Ylan.

Developer
Jun 28, 2012 at 2:13 PM
Edited Jun 28, 2012 at 10:15 PM

Thanks everyone, I'm extremely honored with all of your votes. Thank you.

Since I'm posting here anyway, please let me share some thoughts with you.

Even though most of you may not see the other candidates in public action on the forum or with blogging, they are extremely valuable in other areas, pushing forward this platform.

Antoine coordinates a lot in the background, really helping make Orchard more accesible and popular, which is invaluable to the growth of this platform. As for Ylan, he has been providing huge value to the platform thanks to all the things that Piotr mentioned about him, and I didn't even realize this before I met this guy. His particpiation is truly invaluable for many reasons. I'd voted for this guy if I knew he would be volunteering :)

The take away of this? Well, whatever your vote, it is well spent on any of us, since we all work together on building this Great Thing that is Orchard and really taking it to the next level.

Jun 28, 2012 at 2:13 PM
fera wrote:

Can we have a half votes? Because I can't really decide which could contribute more - Sipke or Ylan. Sipke has the best Orchard tutorials I have ever seen on the web with great insights on Orchard functioning. But I also think that some PR and marketing around Orchard is something that's probably the most needed thing in this stage - it could lead to a larger community and wider Orchard adoption, maybe even put Orchard in all those posts that compare CMS-es. Most people don't even take Orchard into account just because they haven't even heard about it.

For this reason, if I really had to choose who should I vote for, I guess it would be Ylan, but I would rather give half a vote to both Sipke and Ylan.

In my opinion, Orchard isn't ready yet for the 'big public' mostly because of in my opinion lacking gallery / module options (like not being able to target specific orchard versions, define list of know incompatible modules, it allowing to download & activate modules that are missing some dependencies, ...)

So I do not think that PR/marketing is what Orchard needs right now, it just needs to stay alive for now while these (and other issues) are ironed out by developer - just my 2 cents ;)

Jun 28, 2012 at 2:57 PM

sfmskywalker

Jun 28, 2012 at 7:05 PM

sfmskywalker

I don't think existing steering team members should get a vote. Seems like a conflict of interest, no?

On another note, what does the steering committee do? I can't find the charter, list of roles and responsibilities, measurable goals, accomplishments, list of decisions, roadmap, or anything. Do we even need a steering committee? Is the vacant spot important? Since steering committee membership comes with at least "bragging rights," surely each member should have measurable deliverables, no? If not, this is a moot point.

 

Regards,

Dave

Jun 28, 2012 at 7:23 PM

David

I believe your comments are well placed and this should be constructed and made public.  Excellent feedback.  Transparency in terms of communication should be part and parcel with an Open Source Community.

"charter, list of roles and responsibilities, measurable goals, accomplishments, list of decisions, roadmap"

Wishing you well and enjoying your ongoing posts.

Best,

Ylan

Jun 28, 2012 at 8:43 PM

Ylan

Developer
Jun 28, 2012 at 8:58 PM
Edited Jun 28, 2012 at 8:59 PM
davidhayden wrote:

sfmskywalker

I don't think existing steering team members should get a vote. Seems like a conflict of interest, no?

On another note, what does the steering committee do? I can't find the charter, list of roles and responsibilities, measurable goals, accomplishments, list of decisions, roadmap, or anything. Do we even need a steering committee? Is the vacant spot important? Since steering committee membership comes with at least "bragging rights," surely each member should have measurable deliverables, no? If not, this is a moot point.

 

Regards,

Dave


Hi David,

Excellent notes. It would probably be good to at least have a page that explains the purpose and responsibilities of the steering commity and each team member and who these members are.
I can see your point that existing members should not get a vote and I agree, but I don't see any vote from any existing team member (then again I might be overlooking someone). I'm curious though as to why you would bring this up and direct it to me?

Cheers man.

Jun 28, 2012 at 9:47 PM

I wasn't directing the above message to sfmskywalker. I was voting for sfmskywalker. My apologies for the confusion.

And unless I am mistaken, Piotr ( pszmyd ) is a member of the steering committee and I don't think existing members should be able to vote. I could see that being a conflict of interest. Obviously Piotr is an honest and cool guy and wouldn't do something underhanded, but I just don't think having steering committee members voting is right.

Thanks to Ylan and sfmskywalker for agreeing that there needs to be more transparency and accountability on the steering committee. I think it needs to go beyond biographies and a general description of purpose, however. I think members should have roles, responsibilities, deliverables and be accountable for building the product/community in measurable ways. I am sure you are doing this now, but I for one don't know what you're doing and it probably goes unnoticed by all the developers in the background building awareness and community by delivering solutions on Orchard.

Personally, if Antoine, sfmskywalker, and Ylan plan to make a real difference to the product and community in the next few months left in this term, I'd vote them all on the steering committee. Anyone who is willing to spend personal, unpaid time to build the product and community in measurable and meaningful ways gets my vote everytime.

Best of luck to you all!

Regards,

Dave

Jun 28, 2012 at 10:59 PM

sfmskywalker

Jun 29, 2012 at 7:53 AM

My vote goes to Ylan.

Developer
Jun 29, 2012 at 1:42 PM
Edited Jun 29, 2012 at 1:44 PM

@davidhayden There is no conflict of interest as we're all on the same boat. I'd love to vote for both Sipke, Antoine and Ylan to temporarily join Steering Committee till September, but I guess that's not possible (or maybe?):) After all, whomever will get chosen it will be a very good choice - all candidates are very active and I hope they will be no matter who will actually fill the seat.

Speaking about transparency - it's transparent to the bone IMO. We have weekly meetings (Wednesdays 12-1 PM PST / 9-10 PM CEST) that are open for everyone to attend. Sebastien also announces this each week on Twitter. Here is the link to the meeting: https://join.microsoft.com/meet/sebros/TWFQ3LYH. There are also public Trello boards (https://trello.com/orchard) used to keep track of development tasks for various features.

Best,

Piotr

Jun 29, 2012 at 6:25 PM

sfmskywalker

Coordinator
Jun 29, 2012 at 9:26 PM

@David: in all democracies, everyone gets a vote, even elected officials, and nobody sees a conflict of interests there. Where do you see one? What interests? You'll have to be more specific. This being said, I chose not to vote on this one, for reasons that are my own. I'll leave everyone to make their own decisions as well.

As for what the committee does and transparency, I respect and appreciate the work you're doing in this community, but we never saw you, if I'm not mistaken, at our completely public weekly meetings. If you did attend one of them, you wouldn't be asking that question. How is shipping Orchard several times a year as a deliverable?

I do take your point on charters and roadmaps. The main problem is that it's hard to make any long-term projections on such a project. The committee is mostly dealing with tactics and not much strategy. There is definitely a vision guiding us, but a fairly straightforward and technical one that doesn't change much over time: building a core extensibility engine for CMS, and the most widely useful modules around it. I can also tell you what it's not, such as building vertical modules and applications. This is left to the wider community.

As for tactics, we could do a better job of communicating the results of each meeting. We used to send a report to the list after each meeting and stopped doing it. That's wrong. I'll make sure we bring this back and I'll post it on forums as well. We also have the roadmap page in the documentation that shows the focus of the current work, but this is necessarily shifting as the release work is happening. Suggestions are welcome.

Finally, who's who in the committee can be found here: http://orchardproject.net/about

Developer
Jun 30, 2012 at 11:17 AM
Edited Jun 30, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Although I can see both ways, after reconsidering both Piotr and Bertrand's arguments I prefer that everyone involved has a vote, including the existing members. After reading their opinions I realized that it's actually quite helpful to understand everyone's views and opinions, especially those of the steering commity since they're at the heart of things and know the qualities of the people they work with better than those who do not. They should be able to express they're views and opinion via a vote. The more views are shared, the better others can determine their own based on a greater pool of "information" (information in the broadest sense of the word, including knowledge of the views and opinions of others).

I interpreted the point of "conflicting interests" as votes of existing steering members may influence the votes of the community members. But that I believe is actually a good thing: I'd rather receive votes from people who have as much information they need and can get, and knowing the opinions of the current board members help with that. For example I think Piotr's reasoning is really helpful. But in the end I don't see a conflict of interests.

As for transparancy, I interpreted David's notes as to making the most important desiscions and plans more accesible to the community, e.g. via roadmaps and charts. I think we all agree that this helps the platform moving forward greatly.
When I first learned about Orchard I have been watching the "What's happening now" page like a hawk. It's a big sell to see progress in an easy to digest manner.

 

Jun 30, 2012 at 3:35 PM

I really didn't want my concerns to distract from the voting, so my apologies. I also thought I had a couple of legitimate concerns here, so again, my apologies if this is rubbing people the wrong way.

First, it didn't seem appropriate to me for current steering committee members to vote on an open seat. It's not like I thought anything bad was happening by do so, but it could cast doubt on the process. It could sway votes, perhaps. It could cause people, perhaps, not to vote thinking those members know best. But, my concerns are obviously unjustified so please ignore them.

Second, I also thought I had some legitimate concerns about the transparency of the steering committee. Again, I am not suggesting that the group is not doing a phenomenal job, but that I, and I assumed a lot of community members, may have no clue as to what the group is doing. I also thought by knowing more about what happens during those meetings and decisions made I could make a more informed/educated decision as to who is best to fill the open seat. If you're saying that I have to attend each and every steering committee meeting to be informed and this is my only way of being informed of decisions, etc., then I guess I won't be informed. I cannot attend those conference calls on Wednesday Afternoons due to other obligations, but that is not your problem nor a huge deal to me. The fact that attendance is the only means of getting information is a shame because I think the information could be helpful for us developers delivering solutions to customers.

As a friendly suggestion, I wish there were two things:

  1. A way I could suggest topics for consideration to the steering committee since I cannot attend the weekly conference calls. These aren't bug reports, complaints, etc., but constructive recommendations that I think deserve some attention. Ideally I would love to see these addressed during a meeting and receive some sort of response.
  2. A synopsis, if possible, about major topics or decisions made in those meetings. Anything useful so that I may be more informed when representing and delivering the product to my clients, convey accurate information about the future of the product, and better understand the major areas of concerns being addressed by the steering committee.

In general, I just can't imagine I am the only passionate Orchard developer who can't attend those conference calls on a regular basis. I also hope that just because some of us cannot attend those meetings, our concerns are less valid or valuable for that single reason.

I believe I have wasted everyone's time long enough, however. Please continue with the voting and my apologies for causing commotion. I should have addressed these concerns in a more appropriate manner and location. These thoughts were just on my mind while I was trying to make an informed decision about which person would be best to fill the open seat.

Regards,

Dave

Coordinator
Jun 30, 2012 at 7:19 PM

No problem, I agree yours are legitimate concerns. I do still think that endorsements are fine from anyone, especially as at this point I don't see that anyone's goal isn't the success of Orchard. Maybe next time the vote can be only secret? Probably something to raise in September when we have the next vote.

Of course, you don't have to attend every meeting, and I understand that you have other constraints. We have around 15-25 people every week on the call but you are right that there are probably others who, like you, can't attend. You can still interact with the committee and the rest of the folks on the meetings through the Google group: http://groups.google.com/group/orchard-gov. Suggested topics and questions are more than welcome. We will address them during the meeting and report back on Google group. If the topic is important and your presence is required, we can also try to arrange an exceptional meeting at a different time. We've also recorded some of the meetings in the past but there's significant overhead in doing that, then in posting the videos on YouTube. If someone volunteers to do it, that would be very welcome.

Your point #2 is what I was trying to address in my previous message by saying that we will restore our previous practice of sending an e-mail after each meeting to the Google group, and also to reproduce it in these forums.

Thanks for the candid feedback. It's appreciated more than my previous message may have shown.

Jul 1, 2012 at 9:51 AM

+1 for Ylan

Jul 1, 2012 at 12:10 PM

sfmskywalker [...as he is Orchards equivalent to Yoda]

Developer
Jul 1, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Great idea about the weekly report about the Committee meeting, we'll do that in Hungarian for Orchard Hungary.

Coordinator
Jul 4, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Voting is now closed. The winner is Sipke with 66.7% of the votes. Ylan got 25.9% and Antoine 7.4%. 39 people voted (all publicly, no secret vote was received), out of which 12 were invalidated for lack of posting history that CodePlex could show, but counting these votes wouldn't have changed the outcome, which is that Sipke is the new member of the committee. Congratulations!

Jul 4, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Congratulations Sipke!

Developer
Jul 8, 2012 at 12:32 PM
Edited Jul 8, 2012 at 12:32 PM

@sfmskywalker Gratz, man!:)

Nov 30, 2012 at 2:26 PM
Edited Nov 30, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Congrats sfmskywalker