Drupal Vs Orchard: Is Enterprise Ready?

Topics: General
Feb 10, 2012 at 5:28 PM
Edited Feb 11, 2012 at 1:51 PM

Can someone give some advantages of Orchard against Drupal?

Please consider enterprise level usage:

  1. Heavy Content
  2. Usage by million users
  3. Users management
  4. Campaign approval process
  5. Ad management
  6. Ad analytics
  7. Manage content areas like ads, news

 

Feb 10, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Can you be more specific please, e.g. if you say "I like [x] feature about Drupal, can Orchard do this?" then I can give you a meaningful answer. Otherwise just look at the websites and documentation for each CMS and compare the features (or even ... gasp! ... try actually installing them both yourself and seeing which one you like). Nobody can possibly know what particular subset of features you might think are most important for comparison.

To be honest the way you phrase the question it sounds way too much like an essay title and I wonder if you're asking us to do your homework for you ...?

Feb 10, 2012 at 6:59 PM

... I realise that answer was somewhat evasive but let me just say about Orchard:

- Does Drupal natively support cloud deployment?

- Is Drupal built around Inversion of Control principles to provide true modularity, and MVC to encourage strong separation of concerns?

- Does Drupal provide modules with a robust framework for atomic database migrations, persistence mapping, and UI composure?

And finally:

- Does Drupal have Razor or anything remotely close? ;)

Feb 11, 2012 at 1:38 AM
Edited Feb 11, 2012 at 1:51 AM

I did not ask anyone to do my homework. Did you understand when I said enterprise level usage? What I meant by usage is that how stable, scalable and secured it is to help the designers and the content managers to manage large scale content? A CMS is not just for developers like me or you to develop modules and they use it for their personal sites. An enterprise has many content managers, designers and their job is using a CMS each and every second. By saying that, my interest is not in anything that you mentioned like whether it has razor view engine, persistence mapping, MVC or IoC or cloud deployment.

Here is a comparison of drupal vs sitecore. This is what an enterprise looks at.

Coordinator
Feb 11, 2012 at 2:16 AM

I'm tempted to say you should use Drupal, Sitecore or Sharepoint. They are probably much more aligned with what you are looking for than Orchard is or wants to be.

Feb 11, 2012 at 2:18 AM

As far as I know there have been no thorough comparison between Orchard and the other major CMS systems. I did some looking around when deciding on CMS systems for a couple of projects and I also couldn't find any major sites using Orchard, so there is no major website that would stand as a testament to the scalabillity or robustness of Orchard. The mix website is running on Orchard and they are getting a decent amount of traffic. The NuGet gallery used to run on Orchard until about a month ago (albeit an older version of it, that lacked some of the speed improvements you'll find in the current version). Those are the two biggest websites I found that were using Orchard. And of course the Orchard gallery. 

Coordinator
Feb 11, 2012 at 2:23 AM

Now that is not exactly true, unless you have an unrealistic definition of "major site" that only includes the likes of Facebook (none of which are based on an off-the-shelf CMS). ACLJ, Mix 2011, the Build conference, TechEd, and lots of commerce sites built on Orchard have demonstrated that it scales to large datasets and lots of concurrent users. "Enterprise-ready" on the other hand is a set of requirements that the likes of Sharepoint and Sitecore like to tout but that I am more tempted to dismiss as this is not what Orchard is trying to be.

Feb 11, 2012 at 2:52 AM

I saw in a posting that http://aclj.org/ runs on Orchard. That is the another big site runs on Orchard.

I was a fan of dotnetnuke few years ago. For an enterprise project the team decided to go with dotnetnuke, and that project lead to a disaster. There was issue with developing better user experience and the app suffered with performance issues.

I'm wondering what is the direction Orchard taking if not it is a CMS app aimed at an enterprise to use. It is surely a well architected application. The greatest advantage I have seen from a developer's perspective is integrating functionalities as modules.

If Orchard can be hosted on cloud and can serve 25 million active users, I'm going to recommend it for an enterprise. Thats what drupal is doing for http://www.whitehouse.gov/, probably for more than 25 millions.

 

Coordinator
Feb 11, 2012 at 3:18 AM

Orchard can be hosted on the cloud but nobody knows what would happen if you had 25 million users on a site because it never happened, nobody had the need so far. We prefer to focus on the requirements of the many, many users that have much more modest sites. This keeps us pretty busy already. If your site aims at 25 million users, I would actually actively push you away from Orchard, unless you are willing to devote the necessary resources to ensure success. Makes sense?

Feb 11, 2012 at 3:33 AM
varghesep wrote:

I did not ask anyone to do my homework. Did you understand when I said enterprise level usage? What I meant by usage is that how stable, scalable and secured it is to help the designers and the content managers to manage large scale content? A CMS is not just for developers like me or you to develop modules and they use it for their personal sites. An enterprise has many content managers, designers and their job is using a CMS each and every second. By saying that, my interest is not in anything that you mentioned like whether it has razor view engine, persistence mapping, MVC or IoC or cloud deployment.

Here is a comparison of drupal vs sitecore. This is what an enterprise looks at.

So you don't think cloud deployment has anything to do with enterprise usage or scalability?

Anyway, your original question merely said "please consider enterprise level usage". You didn't say "only answer in terms of enterprise usage".  So this is a case of "ask the wrong question, get the wrong answer". As I also noted, your question was so broadly phrased it was impossible to give an answer relevant to what you consider important. Even that Drupal vs Sitecore comparison you linked to barely even mentions enterprise usage. Personally, I consider developer tools the most important factor, because anything else can be built with the right tools. 

Feb 11, 2012 at 3:35 AM
Edited Feb 11, 2012 at 3:37 AM

When I was looking into Orchard I did a comparison of all the sites I could find that were using it and compared the traffic using Alexa.com -- however valid that may be. There are some Drupal sites with much higher traffic than any Orchard one I could find (and nothing pie in the sky like Facebook of course). At the time I didn't find references to Tech Ed or Build being built on Orchard. 

 I don't have any doubts that Orchard can and will scale. None of what I said was meant to be an argument for or against any CMS. Just pointing out that there is more evidence of bigger sites for Drupal at the moment; and that is completely natural given how much longer Drupal has been around. I myself looked into things and the fact that I'm using Orchard for projects shows my confidence in it. Orchard has only gotten better and faster since the time when I did my comparison a few months ago. 

Feb 11, 2012 at 1:08 PM
Edited Feb 11, 2012 at 1:46 PM
randompete wrote:

So you don't think cloud deployment has anything to do with enterprise usage or scalability?

Anyway, your original question merely said "please consider enterprise level usage". You didn't say "only answer in terms of enterprise usage".  So this is a case of "ask the wrong question, get the wrong answer". As I also noted, your question was so broadly phrased it was impossible to give an answer relevant to what you consider important. Even that Drupal vs Sitecore comparison you linked to barely even mentions enterprise usage. Personally, I consider developer tools the most important factor, because anything else can be built with the right tools. 

I surely think cloud deployment has everything to do with scalability. But your approach to this discussion is from a developer's perspective. I'm a developer and can agree anything can be made with right tools, I would probably rephrase it and say with right design and any tool that can implement that design a developer can develop anything.

 PS. I have updated the topic and the first post to remove the vagueness.

Feb 11, 2012 at 1:17 PM
bertrandleroy wrote:

Orchard can be hosted on the cloud but nobody knows what would happen if you had 25 million users on a site because it never happened, nobody had the need so far. We prefer to focus on the requirements of the many, many users that have much more modest sites. This keeps us pretty busy already. If your site aims at 25 million users, I would actually actively push you away from Orchard, unless you are willing to devote the necessary resources to ensure success. Makes sense?

One web project I have been part of had 15 million users out of that some 10 million active users. It was built on MVC3 framework. There is not much content on that site but just an e-commerce site with 5 pages that hit by millions every month. I did not see any performance problem with that site developed on an MVC. Orchard uses MVC. I would say it should scale for millions of users unless there is some layer which is a bottleneck to the performance.

Feb 11, 2012 at 1:34 PM
bertrandleroy wrote:

Now that is not exactly true, unless you have an unrealistic definition of "major site" that only includes the likes of Facebook (none of which are based on an off-the-shelf CMS). ACLJ, Mix 2011, the Build conference, TechEd, and lots of commerce sites built on Orchard have demonstrated that it scales to large datasets and lots of concurrent users. "Enterprise-ready" on the other hand is a set of requirements that the likes of Sharepoint and Sitecore like to tout but that I am more tempted to dismiss as this is not what Orchard is trying to be.

I like your answer. The scaling is a factor a business look at. Like I mentioned, what would happen to the site when the users grow from couple of thousands to millions to multi millions. I'm getting a confidence that Orchard may well shine there. When it comes to enterprise functionality, the upper level executives look at process like approving campaigns (design firm to content manager to VP to CIO to CEO), conversion, targetting content based on users location, analytics etc... I think Orchard may be lacking functionality in some of those areas. These functionalities can be built in as modules, so I'm going to say Orchard is not "enterprise ready" but "can be enterprise ready".